In this episode, we delved into a heartbreaking event that unfolded in June 2023, shedding light on the life of Sarit Ahmed, a young woman whose tragic story touches the depths of the human heart. Through intimate conversations with Sarit's close friends and confidants, we gained in-depth insights into her struggles, hopes, and triumphs. As Sarit's story unfolds, we witness her journey to find acceptance and love in a society that often fails to recognize the beauty of diversity. Sarit's close friend shared their memories of her determination, strength, and unwavering spirit. Together, the guest and host provide a poignant reflection on the challenges faced by LGBTQ+ individuals in a culture where conformity can often overshadow authenticity. Michael Ross and his guest navigate the complexities of Sarit's life, exploring the depths of familial relationships, societal expectations, and the pursuit of self-acceptance. 'Straight Friendly' aims to create a safe and inclusive space for crucial conversations, fostering understanding and empathy. Through heartfelt anecdotes, thought-provoking discussions, and a commitment to change, this podcast challenges the status quo and raises awareness about the importance of embracing diversity and fostering acceptance, and honoring Sarit's memory toward a more inclusive and compassionate world.
Sarit Ahmed's Friend Translated Interview
[00:00:00] Template Opening (FNF and Sponsors)
Intro + Monologue + Setup for Interview
Michael: Hello everyone, this episode is probably one of the most difficult one that I have ever produced, and also for the team of production. The reason why it's so difficult is because of the subject. We created two episodes also in Hebrew and we decided to translate it to English because we found it to be very important, although it's very difficult for us.
And also this episode might be difficult also for the listeners, but I believe it also in every difficult situation, we can find a lot of hope and how can we make a better future if we will not also examine and deal with the painful feelings and stuff that are really happening around the [00:01:00] world and in the LGBTQ plus communities.
So this episode is in commemoration of Sarit Ahmad Shaku, who was only 18 years old when being murdered for being in LGBT for being a lesbian. And, many times when I give lectures about queer history or when I produce those these episodes of the podcasts. And generally I'm mainly working on creating a startup for the LGBTQ plus communities and their allies.
So many times I'm being asked both by straight people and also both by people who are among the queer communities. Why do we have to deal with all those stuff? And many times [00:02:00] people say, Hey, it's all, all okay now, no? The situation is progressing. Although we all know. And we saw it also in some of the episodes here that the situations can also go back as we saw with the example of Turkey, for instance, one of the first episodes of this podcast.
So we cannot take things as granted, but, also in places and situations where there is a progress. So many times, especially the minorities. And, being an LGBT is being a minority. So being both an LGBT and part also of another minority, having another identity, um, makes it even more difficult.
So many times we see in societies that even if a situation looks positive and good. Yet, there will be people who are suffering, and I think that for us it's very important to raise awareness about that. [00:03:00] I've once been in some conference in New York where it was mentioned there about 50 years to the Stonewall riots, Stonewall events.
And one of the speakers there Say something that I really remember, and it was a very important lesson for me. The fact that we are, as the current generation, or generations, and also as activists, we are all relying on previous generations of activists. And it's like a pyramid, it's like a triangle, we're standing on their shoulders, and also future generations will be standing on our shoulders.
And I think it's very important for us also to take care also For the weaker parts of our societies and communities. And when we talk about LGBT phobia or homophobia or lesbian phobia or any kind of phobia also to different [00:04:00] kinds of minorities and groups. You know, homophobia can kill. And this is the situation that we decided to expose here in this episode.
A young girl was murdered by her family, by her brothers. mainly for being lesbian. So I will tell a bit about what happened. Here we are talking specifically about the story of Sarit and mainly what happened, but it's relevant for many other voices and names that we are not mentioning in this podcast.
And
It's real. And when, once organizing the commemoration event we did it in the place where she was murdered, and it was about seeing the [00:05:00] evidences there of, uh, of a car that someone shot with a gun or several guns while she was driving. So we did a commemoration event right in, in that place.
Many times it's for me, sitting in my studio and recording those episodes or meeting different activists and recording, I think that most of our episodes are, we try at least that we are quite optimistic. We try to do it in a positive way, of course, also with sharing the painful points. But those kinds of events of being in a scene, in a site of where a murder has been.
Taking place in just a few hours before, makes it all, like real. Sometimes we talk about situation of like in change, Chechnya between over the concentration camps for LGBT people. We hear about some countries where for instance, [00:06:00] Russia, which makes the life of LGBT to be miserable.
And it's people's lives. And this episode is about such a reminder. bEfore we will proceed to an interview that we created with someone who knew Sarit. I will tell a bit what about what happened. And once again, this whole story is about something that happened in Israel, in the Galilee, in the north of a country, but it's relevant to any other kind of society or country.
I hope that it will not be relevant anymore, but I can see a situation that it will change. And it really has to remind us as also as. As activists, as educational people about the power that we have, because hate, many times the reason for that, it comes from ignorance or about not knowing about the other side.
And once not knowing, not [00:07:00] meeting, so we tend to be afraid, we tend to be scared. And unfortunately, in some of the cases, it can even end up with violence, even physical violence of even a murder. In Israel, there are around 9 million people who live here. There are different societies here and different cultural.
Groups and societies here we have Hebrew speakers and Jewish people. We have Arab speakers who can be Christian or Muslim, Druze and many more cultures. The Arab minority are around 20 percent as part of the population in Israel. And while many times we hear about Tel Aviv as the capital of the country, we do know that for the Arab speakers, the capital, the queer [00:08:00] capital, is actually more Haifa, where I currently live and from where I'm recording this episode.
While sometimes the first progress we see, can happen in liberal parts of societies, for instance, in Tel Aviv in a Jewish middle class, but for Arab speakers, or, even for Russian speakers, the situation is is different and also I think that the media has a lot to do about that.
While here in Israel most of the media is in Hebrew, but I can say that, for instance, my dad, who immigrated from the former Soviet Union, so he's watching Russian speaking TV. For Arab speakers, it's very similar. Not necessarily affected by changes that we see in the Jewish speaking media.
And here in Haifa, I have to say that I got to know quite many people who are very young in, in the beginning of their 20s. [00:09:00] Lots of Arab speakers who were, got kicked out of their houses. For some of them, it was a matter of even life or death. And they had to escape from their families. So the situation of Sarit is symbolic, is is relevant also for other stories.
Sarit understood about herself from quite a young age, that she was different, and later understanding that she was an LGBT. But she was lesbian and also the way of her appearance was different, was what can be seen to be more masculine. She was born and raised and grew up in a Daruz village, another Arab speaking group here around Israel and also the Middle East.[00:10:00]
In one hand, very conservative, but for the Hebrew version of the podcast, we also brought some speakers that showed some mainly from young, from the young generation of people who are also trying to create change in that society. SArit had to escape from her house. There are some different programs here that help people who are in need, especially teenagers.
And she lived several years in a shelter, yet she, she was missing her family. And they tried to make her come back to the village where she is originally from. And she did that. She hoped to make a better new connections with her brothers and the surroundings. But eventually she was very unfortunately she was murdered.
The day after the murder, it was during weekend [00:11:00] in June 2023. And the day after the murder some activists organized some small commemoration event for her that happened in Tel Aviv and I felt like I had some need. To commemorate her her memory, not only in Tel Aviv, but actually in the place where she was murdered.
And more and more activists joined us. We had to arrange it in advance together with the police that sent so many forces to guard us. And it was a very spontaneous event that eventually more than 70 people arrived to mainly Jewish speaking. And the site of a murder was in between some Arab villages and some very small Jewish villages, but mainly in, in an area which is Arab speaking in an area which is more traditional.
And once making the social media posts about the event [00:12:00] that we want to do, I started to receive phone calls from different Arab speaking LGBTs, who. Are you sure you want to do that? Are you know that you can, your life can be in a danger? We really appreciate what you're doing. Thank you so much for what you're doing.
But we cannot come because we are afraid for our life. And you should also think about that. And and understand that It can be also dangerous for you and it's just half an hour of drive from Haifa, which is a very liberal and big city. It's not in some very far country or something that you just read about on news.
It's like just next to a, some natural reserve in an archaeological site that I used to travel a lot in that area. Yeah. So like it's. It's just where regular people live. So that whole situation was very bizarre. Like people calling [00:13:00] us, telling us, thank you for what you're doing. But think once again, if you really want to do it and we cannot come, although we really support of.
What you do, and we also see it with the podcasts, we found out with some research that we did that at least for the Hebrew version, most of our listeners are actually in the closet, which reminded me why I created this podcast, because I always say, how can we reach and give more information and accessibility to information and knowledge to people who don't have enough access to that, and many times people who live outside of the big city.
So actually this is what is, yeah, happening. But, sometimes we see all those people who talk on TV or social media about gay and LGBT rights. But we have to take into consideration that the majority of the people are inside of the closet. And those who we see in the media are not necessarily the people who are representing us all.
So once organizing that [00:14:00] event, we brought flags, rainbow flags, we brought flowers. Candles and people were singing there and there was a lot of police that had to guard us and once the event Finished and we left the place. So very quickly some young people from the area came and they just destroyed it And I'm asking myself if what are, if they are they fighting in the name of religion?
Because, in religion, also in, in the Jewish religion, also in the Druze religion, even much more than the Jewish tradition. So in the Druze, there's a whole belief of life after death. So what about the honor, the respect of also the memory of the dead? So for me, it was. It's very important that Sarit's memory will not be forgotten, and that there will be some memorial event, and actually, in fact, [00:15:00] the day after, there wasn't even a real burial ceremony, or just very few people arrived, and even the religious figures, they didn't arrive there.
I had no idea that once organizing that event, it will have so much of meaning. A few days after some Arab activists organized also another commemoration event in Haifa, which also required police. So I think that those kind of stories, it's very important that they will be taught in school. They, we need to give more information for people because that event like she was just 18 years old.
She had just started her life. And from what I understand with people that we interviewed and we were talking with, so we understand that she was a rebellion. She was a change maker [00:16:00] because she was not judged only for being lesbian, but she was judged probably mainly, first of all for getting outside of the character or of what is being expected from what.
What women should be like, of how women should dress like and behave in that specific culture, and that's relevant also for many other cultures, was also shows that we cannot completely disconnect between the feminist movement and the queer movement, and generally movements and activism of liberalism, of liberal values, of being open, of accepting other kinds of people and cultures.
I don't know if you're aware, but in Israel, we have a very big problem of crime and death murder cases within the [00:17:00] Arab societies. Seems it's not being controlled. Many of those cases are not being completely discovered by police, meaning that they're not necessarily find who...
And it was very important for us for some of the activists that something like that will not happen with the case of so it was important for us also to make the episodes that we did in Hebrew and also other activists were, of course, Part of that, but it was for many activists It was very important that this will be something that will be talked about in the media.
It's something that should start The news shows it should start the website the news websites social media It's like something that people should be talking about. So we interviewed for the Hebrew Version we [00:18:00] interviewed some people who knew Sarit who also Knew with something Strange happening the day and the two days before the murder and we interviewed them and we tried to do everything we could in order to make that content to be viral.
So it will get to more and more people. And I think it eventually it happened. I can say today that this case has been completely the police found the people who are guilty for that her brother. And some people that joined him. So it was the first time for us To interview people, that were in, in danger, in real life danger and making sure that we are also not publishing anything that can interrupt with the investigation of the police.
So we're gonna [00:19:00] put here in a moment an interview that we created together with someone who knew Sarit very well. We have translation there and we also had to make sure that The original voice will not be recognizable since there there's a really it's a situation of life in a risk and it's first time for us to do something like that using those different methods of editing, uh, of the sounds and making sure in also with legal stuff related to that.
And it seems like with some of the content that we created in Hebrew, and since of our the activism that we're doing and the podcast that we're doing in Hebrew, so we were able to reach to the people who knew her, while many of the reporters could not do that. So the fact that we are having this interview is very surprising, I have to say, it was very surprising for us also to [00:20:00] find out that some of the people we interviewed, they were not willing To be interviewed for the media in Israel.
So actually it seems like one documentary that will be created here in Israel about this case. We will be using some of the recordings that we did, uh, for the Hebrew podcast. So here we're gonna play the interview that we did. I have to say it's very difficult, but we did find also some hope in there.
do you think you could talk a little bit about her hometown, her life, the future that she hoped for?
Sarit's Friend: Yes. First, I would like to start by saying that she had a true, pure soul. She was a very strong person, and she's been through a lot of difficult circumstances in her life. She moved out of the house three years ago to some institution.[00:21:00]
They took good care of her there. When she turned 18, she had to leave this institution because it's only made for minor children. Her parents reached out to her, claiming that they have changed and they are more accepting to her the way she is
Michael: now. In fact, could it be that she was at her family and not in a shelter, not entirely by choice?
Sarit's Friend: Before I continue, I would like to provide some background at her life, at her parents' house, she wasn't allowed to use her cell phone and also she wasn't allowed to step outta the house and not even have a education or to go to university after her parents reached out to her. They reassured her of a good treatment and drastic change in their behavior and attitude.
They succeeded in convincing her, so she returned to the house for three months. Sarit on the other side tried her [00:22:00] best, but in every giving opportunity she tried to escape the house. Clearly she wasn't trusted of her parents. But they always tried to convince her that they are different now and they won't cause her any harm.
But in fact, they actually were not accepting and told her that they are ashamed of her stepping out of the house together, and in the past month, problems and conflicts escalated. As a result, she tried to seize every escaping opportunity, but returned for the sake of her mother and her sister, which were the closest to Sarit.
Michael: Maybe if Sarit had the financial ability, at that age, she wouldn't have stayed there for so long? Do you think so?
Maybe if Sarit had the financial ability, at that age, she wouldn't have stayed there for...[00:23:00]
Sarit's Friend: If Sarit was financially independent, I don't think that she would have less conflicts with her parents. Because even when she was in the institution, they tried to talk to her and disturb her more than once.
After Sarit returned to the house, circumstances and situations with her parents were relatively okay. But in the past month, especially, problems escalated. They used to tell her that it's enough. You cannot proceed your life the way you look. And what they mean by that is to grow her hair back and dress like a girl or according to the social norms.
Michael: After the murder has been published in the media, At least the Hebrew speaking Israeli media. I don't know if you've seen the reports, but do you think that they were accurate? Is there anything to add to what the media [00:24:00] talked about?
Sarit's Friend: In relation to the Israel press and case public representation, I believe that every matter detail was acknowledged.
However, a detail with worth mentioning is the fact that she moved out of the house in the last month. In light of the conflicts, she lived at her sister's house. Her sister is married and lives near Camille. Then, after her eventual return to her parents house, she stayed there for three days, and on the fourth day, they killed her.
Her parents and brothers convinced her to live in the house. They reassured her that she will be safe, even that one of her brothers gave her money so she can buy furniture for her room in order to settle down properly. In addition, he offered her to go and switch cars with him since he was a new, since he [00:25:00] has a newer, more expensive car.
So she drove her car with her brother behind her. In order to make a formal transition in car's ownership Sarit was delighted that she is getting a new car, and at the same time, very surprised. So she prepared herself quickly and went out. At... it was the last time.
Michael: Do you feel the police did their job, and there is a serious investigation of the
Sarit's Friend: event?
I'm not really sure if these details that I have just told you are acknowledged by the police. However, as I have mentioned before, the threats in the past month were mainly from her brothers.
Michael: Is it possible that the lack of acceptance that Sarit received from home is not because of Sarit's sexual orientation, [00:26:00] but because of expectations that society has out of women?
And her being one that breaks them, breaks those expectations that the society has.
Sarit's Friend: In my opinion, Sarit's family didn't accept her for both reasons, which are firstly by being a lesbian, and second, not following the social norms and expectations that accompanies by the female's being and role in the Arabic society.
Arab society is, and will always will be, a challenging region for women in general, and especially the area which Sarit comes from. And it's very conservative. All of these factors contribute to the challenge Sarit faced, and perhaps the tragic eventual outcome.
Michael: On Saturday, there was that event that together with several activists, we organized at the site of the murder.
And once we [00:27:00] finished with a commemoration event, the police also left the site. But then a group of young people from the area arrived and they destroyed the memorial site. They destroyed the flags, the flowers, they destroyed everything that we left there. And they also physically attacked the TV reporter who stayed there.
And I would like to ask you, do you have any message for those people?
Sarit's Friend: The vandalism that followed Sarit's memorial event was brutal and savage. But on the other hand, it was very painful to me. Sarit's loss is a tragedy that broke my heart, absolutely. But seeing some kind of people dealing with murder, not just coldly, but actually encouraging it, that made the whole situation for me even way more painful and upsetting.
I personally think and believe that killing is merely unjustified, no matter the circumstances. Any of these vandals could have been in the same [00:28:00] situation. Not showing any sort of sympathy is inexcusable. It's enough that she was not accepted nor respected in her life, so at least respect her memory after her murder.
When Sarit's news came to the public, it received a great deal of hate and perpetuation in the comment sections as well. Even though she doesn't even know them, nor did she heard them in any sort of ways. These facts are more painful to me. I would like to add and explain how nice and pure Sarit was, never hurt anyone in her entire life.
She definitely does not deserve this.
Michael: Can I ask? What message do you hope to pass on? What do you think should happen? Do you see any options of hope? In the end, there was a memorial event and people came to mourn. So do we [00:29:00] have any hope? It may be a small group that did a very terrible act, but it may be a minority. I don't know, I'm just thinking out loud, but is there any hope here?
Sarit's Friend: I believe that there is always hope for a better future when it comes to the LGBT community and their acceptance in society. I was in the protest that took place in Haifa. I was standing for Sarit. But I also noticed that there are so many other protesters that support the case and concerned about human lives, which made me hopeful and ambitious about the positive change ahead.
I
Michael: have to say that I think you are very brave and many important messages have been discussed here. So thank you. Shukran. And I really want to thank also to Inas for the translation from Arabic to English and also to Shaked for editing this episode. And is there anything [00:30:00] you'd like to add before we finish?
Sarit's Friend: There is the least I can do. Finally, I would like to say that Sarit was a wonderful person. She was a student that loved to learn, and she was working. She always tried to stand up and support herself, despite the violence and disturbance that she encountered. She always dreamt of having a job that supports vulnerable girls in weak positions.
Not once did she hurt me. She is very understanding and loving. Such a great loss.
Michael: I really hope that her memory will be a part of a future change. Some may call it even a revolution.
Sarit's Friend: May she rest in peace.
Michael: Thank you very much. And of course I deeply appreciate you for sharing your grief with us. Thank you very much.
And we're doing an important educational work here. So really, thank you.
Sarit's Friend: Thank you to raise my voice and speak [00:31:00] and to raise Sarit's voice because she deserves this. It was
Michael: a very inspirational. Thank you very much. Shukran. Goodbye. Bye.
Thank you all for listening to this episode. Today we discussed with tragic story of silly dark. Mud. And the challenges faced by Virgi BTQ. Plus communities, especially in conservative societies. So it's life and untimely death are painful reminder of a reality that many individuals in the LGBTQ plus community still face. This is a very extreme example in which a person lost her life. But along with a sorrow, we also find hope. Hearing stories like spirits. It allows us to raise awareness. Challenge societal normals. And work towards a [00:32:00] more accepting and inclusive future. I remember that change begins with each and every one of us. So let's strive to create a word wherever one, regardless of our sexual orientation or gender identity. Or any other kind of identities can live freely. And authentically without fear of judgment or harm. By the way. This episode was supposed to get published on the week of October 8th. 2023.
With a horrible war between Hamas and Israel. What sparked I couldn't just apple this episode, like nothing has happened.
And we really took it. Into a place of. Dealing with pain and also dealing with hope. So the next episodes.
We'll be dealing. We've a war. With complexibility is [00:33:00] around that. And I will not use this episode. A to politics. I do have to save it. It was difficult for me when different queer activists.
From all around the ward and from different places. Have been criticizing me saying that. Some stuff. Eh, for just being an Israeli. And I'm very thankful that. Before diving in, into. The subjects of a war and showing more faces of the conflict. I am very thankful that. We have this episode about slate. Because this is. A proven example of how they show.
Gender and LGBTQ plus [00:34:00] communities, how it's important. We will be United with, we will be assisting each other. And but I found myself. In between. Of so many subjects. But I am very grateful. For the place and
Doing this kind of things and activism. Strong as also doing this episode. And the next episodes and raising more. Very important voices.
So we're about to end and I want to thank. A cell was like to thank to all the partners who helped us. Thanks to support for production of this episode and Verba. I was able to. Take place and happen. So that's of course Foundation for freedom in Jerusalem. To our editor is to a.
and verbal loss of [00:35:00] tears, especially also here with the transportation and different freelancers and also the people who
to be interviewed. That a. Could be definitely. Be under a life threats. So I thank everyone. And I think it was a lot of the people who came to a Memorial event with we organized for a cerate. Summary or Closing Points
Template Closing (Like and Subscribe)